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#1 07-03-2014 11:15:40

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Inaccurate Order Totals

A recent order has shown some inaccuracies in the basic maths of ClickCart 8 :

Two items were purchased :

Item 1: Actual Price, including VAT at 20%, 84.55 which by my maths is 70.46 + 14.09 VAT.

Clickcart Invoice Total excluding VAT 74.17, VAT 10.99 = total price 85.16.

Item 2 : Actual price, including VAT at 20%, 47.45 which by my maths is 39.54 + 7.91 VAT

Clickcart Invoice Total excluding VAT 41.63, VAT 6.17 = total price 47.80.


Order Totals                        Clickcart                    Correct
Item Subtotals (Exc VAT)     115.79                       110.00
Delivery Total                        15.99                         15.99
LESS: Discount Total            30.00                         30.00
UK VAT Total                         17.16                         17.00
TOTAL                                 118.94                       117.99

An overcharge of 0.95 on the bottom line, which isn't good caused by some strange inflations on the product price being charged.       

Just in case it helps narrow down where the issue is :-

The prices are Wholesale prices entered as a value (inc VAT).
There was a 30 fixed value discount code applied. The discount is not applied to delivery.
Delivery was added at 15.99 with no VAT (which is correct for this order).
The correct Wholesale prices are being displayed.

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#2 07-04-2014 07:53:03

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

This getting worse. We have just had another order that is wrong - No VAT charged at all. Again, as it is not the norm, the items were bought at wholesale price and an expiring discount code for a fixed amount used.

You will recall that there is an outstanding bug from an earlier problem, where VAT wasn't being charged on a VAT'able item that wasn't a delivery item.

Is there a bigger logic problem?

WE CANNOT CONTINUE WITH SUCH FUNDAMENTAL ERRORS!

Last edited by mickelb (07-05-2014 03:51:32)

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#3 07-04-2014 09:19:58

zanart
Member
From: bedford
Registered: 04-02-2008
Posts: 1681

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

Can you recreate the problem by ordering the same items as the customers had??


- Euorpacart 8

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#4 07-04-2014 10:07:08

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

Good thinking. Just tried it and it is the discount code that is casuing the problem. Don't use it and sums are correct. Use it and bingo, wrong totals.

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#5 07-04-2014 11:31:08

dh783
Moderator
From: Avondale, Arizona
Registered: 04-06-2005
Posts: 6233
Website

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

Discount codes are applied before tax or vat, that is why the total is different.

John

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#6 07-05-2014 02:37:41

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

That shouldn't change the product price or remove VAT. 10 off ithe total is 10 off the total (sorry $10 off is $10 off). The product price displayed to the customer (regular or wholesale) is the price they should be paying less the discount plus delivery and include any VAT.

An item that should be sold at 70.46 + 14.09 VAT (84.55 total) shouldn't become 74.17 + 10.99 VAT (85.16 total) as in this example. The invoiced VAT element is also wrong - 20% of 85.16 is 17.03 not 10.99.

There is clearly something wrong with the way the invoice price is being calculated (the shopping cart price is shown correclty) with wholesale pricing and fixed value Discount Code, i.e. a flaw in the code logic. Not the first that we have found.

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#7 07-05-2014 05:05:57

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

OK I understand where things may be going wrong in the first example at the beginning of this thread.

The customer, entitled to Wholesale prices, has added the two items to the shopping cart before logging in. Then logged in at the checkout stage. The prices are then set to wholesale price on page refresh when adding Delivery and Discount code.

Running tests, it appears that if this is the first time the customer has logged in with the open browser, the item prices are wrongly (and randomly) calculated as per item 1. However if you logout then repeat the exercise, using the same browser and not cloisng the website page, log in again at the checkout stage and the prices are now correct. We may have had this bug before - see my post of 26/03/2014 Sudden VAT Problem. So perhaps the workaround mentioned there does not completely resolve the issue, and the second order error of no VAT being charged above may be related.

A further confusion is that on the Order Summary/Invoice the item price Exc VAT is PRE-DISCOUNT price while the VAT is based on the DISCOUNTED VAT, split proportionately between the items based on the price exc VAT, then says the Actual Rate is 20%. It would make more sense if the summary was shown on the same basis for both Item and VAT.

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#8 07-07-2014 09:00:14

webmaster
Administrator
From: York, PA
Registered: 04-20-2001
Posts: 19735
Website

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

(1) I have noted this thread to see if there are VAT calculation issues when switching from wholesale to guest or regular accounts.  I have not seen this issue before, nor heard it reported, but I will get to the bottom of it.

(2) Concerning the discounting, it's being done in the legal, correct manner.  It looks complicated because the discount is against the item subtotal before VAT, and discounts that, which reduces the VAT.  This is done because you can't charge VAT on the portion of the item that isn't being paid for.  Shipping compounds the matter as that's rated, but done proportionately based on discounted items and their VAT amounts.


Nick Hendler

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#9 07-07-2014 09:47:27

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

Nick, thanks for update.

It is not just VAT that is the problem. In the first order that we found an issue the product price shown, excluding VAT in the VAT Summary, was the Regular (full) price and not the Wholesale price as it should have been. Getting the corrrect processing of Wholesale prices and VAT, regardless of when a Customer logs in, is the most important.

Going on to (2), it doesn't make sense to show a pre-discount price (and not the price paid by the customer) against a discounted VAT amount. You don't do this if a reduced Wholesale price is charged, which is effectively a discounted price. The summary just shows the reduced Wholesale Price Exc VAT and then the correct VAT rate for that price. Why is a discount code treated differently?

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#10 07-08-2014 08:51:45

webmaster
Administrator
From: York, PA
Registered: 04-20-2001
Posts: 19735
Website

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

(1) I am fairly certain after doing a little testing yesterday that 99.44% of the use cases are going to work out of the box.  There may be an issue, but I haven't found it yet.  There are definitely no issues with wholesale pricing in checkout when VAT is not being calculated (US stores).

(2) In early versions of ClickCartPro 7, we displayed the actual VAT charged in the summary, and users complained something terrible about it, so it was changed.  As per the law you can show the rate pre-discount for the product (the normal rate), or a rate that reflects the discounts.

(3) In the event of a wholesale price, that is not a discounted price, it's actually a different or alternate price, so that item has a different VAT amount when sold via wholesale than via retail (ie. different base prices rated at the same VAT rate).


Nick Hendler

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#11 07-08-2014 09:31:50

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

I think we may have lines crossed on what I think should be displayed. I'll give an example :

Item 1 - 120 inc VAT
Item 2 -   60 Inc VAT

Delivery 10 (no VAT in this case)

Notwithstanding the error we have on our order, it is irrelevant whether these are Regular or Wholesale prices.

A Discount Code of 20 off the products and not off delivery (though in this example it doesn't matter as the total exceeds the discount value).

Order Totals :-

Item Subtotal Exc VAT  :    150.00
Delivery Total               :      10.00
LESS: Discount Total   :  (   20.00)
UK VAT Total                :      26.00
TOTAL                         :    166.00

European Union VAT Summary

Item                                   Qty       Total Exc VAT       VAT         Actual Rate
Item 1                                  1            86.67              17.33     20%
Item 2                                  1            43.33                8.67     20%
Delivery                               1           10.00                 0.00       0%

So the Summary section balances with the total paid by the customer, including discount, and the actual VAT and VAT Rate paid, both on the total and per item. A clear statement of the transaction. What is wrong with that? It is logical to me, but then I'm not an accountant.

Alternatively, as with most trade invoices, expand the summary to show the pre and post discount values in two sets of columns.

Hope you find out what is throwing the order values though as it is a real concern.

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#12 07-09-2014 08:14:22

webmaster
Administrator
From: York, PA
Registered: 04-20-2001
Posts: 19735
Website

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

What does CCP show in this exact instance?  I'm reading your post like this is the optimal display for you.  Where does CCP differ?  I'm asking because as I read your post, I'm fairly certain (without actually testing it a hundreth time) CCP does exactly what you outlined.


Nick Hendler

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#13 07-09-2014 08:42:14

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

That's the problem, I don't have another example where a Discount Code has been used by a Wholesale Customer who has not logged in until Checkout.

As per the first post here, the CCP shows, in the Summary, the PRE discount Item Price Exc VAT at the Regular price against the POST discount VAT.

If the summary should show the DISCOUNTED Price Exc VAT (and correctly based on the Wholesale price if relevant) against the VAT paid on the DISCOUNTED price then that just shows how messed up this transaction was and why I need it resolving.

Don't forget we also had the second order on which no VAT was charged.

UPDATE:

I have just made some time to run a test on the example I gave above, with Item 1 at 120 invc VAT, Item 2 at 60 including VAT and a 20 discount code.

The order Euroean Union VAT summary is the same mixed up content of Pre-discount Item Price (exc VAT) and the Post-discount VAT, i.e Shows 100 for Item 1, whereas the discounted price exc VAT should be 86.67, and 50 for Item 2, whereas the discounted price should be 43.33.

The Order Totals are correct.

Last edited by mickelb (07-09-2014 10:13:03)

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#14 07-10-2014 11:04:43

webmaster
Administrator
From: York, PA
Registered: 04-20-2001
Posts: 19735
Website

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

The order Euroean Union VAT summary is the same mixed up content of Pre-discount Item Price (exc VAT) and the Post-discount VAT, i.e Shows 100 for Item 1, whereas the discounted price exc VAT should be 86.67, and 50 for Item 2, whereas the discounted price should be 43.33.

I understand that you see it as wrong this way, but that's how the UK regulations read that the summary needs to be, as we understand them.  It may be better if we modified the summary further to show the discount totals in there.  I'm not sure.  It's quite a balance going between UK regulations and what you guys want your stores to display.


Nick Hendler

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#15 07-10-2014 11:42:38

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

I'll see if our general accountant can give a view. I certainly have never seen this on any other VAT invoice where a discount code has been used.

I cannot see the logic of providing someone with an Invoice that doesn't show what they actually paid for an item. If they returned the goods for a refund you would have to get a calculator out to work out the actual item price that need to be refunded. And you can guess the arguments you would get in to.

But whoever said accounting rules were logical?

Don't forget though that the original errors still stand, i.e the item price shown was the Regular price and not Wholesale price and no VAT was charged on the second example. These still need resolving.

Last edited by mickelb (07-10-2014 11:45:53)

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#16 07-11-2014 09:15:01

webmaster
Administrator
From: York, PA
Registered: 04-20-2001
Posts: 19735
Website

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

Thanks.  I'd like to see what the accountant has to say.  I appreciate you running it by them.


Nick Hendler

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#17 07-14-2014 07:36:57

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

Ok, despite it seeming logical to show the actual discounted item price somewhere on a VAT Invoice it seems that there is no requirement as per you interpretation. So a nice to have - perhaps an option to add non-statutory fields and more flexible Invoice design in ClickCart 9?

However, one comment is that the Summary section should normally show per Item:-

Item Description (which it does)
Item Quantity (which it does)
Item Price Exc VAT (which it doesn't unless only 1 purchased)
Total Price Payable Exc VAT (which it does)
The VAT Rate applied (which it does)

You do not need to show the amount of VAT. Indeed not having it would have avoided some of the confusion. From UK HMRC Website :-

For each different type of item listed on the invoice, you must show:

the unit price or rate, excluding VAT
the quantity of goods or the extent of the services
the rate of VAT that applies to what's being sold
the total amount payable, excluding VAT

Any progress on finding the bugs that started this, i.e. Wholesale price not charged, no VAT charged.

Thanks

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#18 07-14-2014 07:49:46

webmaster
Administrator
From: York, PA
Registered: 04-20-2001
Posts: 19735
Website

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

Thank you.  I'll be looking hard at the VAT calcs to expose any issues tomorrow.  I appreciate the info on the VAT summary.  Where did you find the info above?  I'll need to verify the source before we start making changes to the VAT summary.


Nick Hendler

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#19 07-14-2014 08:06:47

mickelb
Member
Registered: 08-07-2011
Posts: 127

Re: Inaccurate Order Totals

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