Kryptronic Software Support Forum

webmaster · 10-07-2009 15:03:20

Kryptronic Software Community:

It has come to our attention that our European customers have received conflicting reports about the availability of ClickCartPro 7 that have inspired numerous questions via email and our forums. To set the record straight...

For several years we have had an agreement with GreenBarnWeb, who has as our sole European distributor of a European version of ClickCartPro. This was a profitable relationship for both parties. There were 2 distinct versions of ClickCartPro (Base and European) based on our designs. Basically, our software was taken as a starting point for GreenBarnWeb, who then added their own UK support to our open-ended architecture.

GreenBarnWeb did an excellent job of marketing the product and the fact that you're receiving this note from us is proof that they were successful selling our product.

Unfortunately, that zest for selling our product didn't translate over to supporting those customers who purchased the product. In the last few years, we've received a large number of complaints and requests for help on the European version of ClickCartPro that was being loosely supported by GreenBarnWeb. This was troublesome because part of our agreement with them included their agreeing to support their version of our software. This was a difficult task for our support engineers, because they were forced to support questionable software that was not created by Kryptronic. In the end, though, we had little control over the individual support the UK customers received, and the product still had our name on it.

During the development of ClickCartPro 7, we audited the base code of the GreenBarnWeb version and discovered a veritable hornets nest of issues that needed to be corrected. During to the issues uncovered in the code, and due to the support circumstances, it was determined that for the benefit of the customers, we would create a unified version of ClickCartPro that would support every market. The product would still be as flexible and professional as ever, but European gateway support, shipping support, and tax support would be built into our standard version. For our customers, it meant that they could take advantage of our excellent support forums, and online help... plus our individual tech support would benefit because all of our engineers would have built and know intimately the product they were supporting.

Including European-specific functionality in ClickCartPro 7 was not really planned for, and cost Kryptronic an additional months of development time. We have always tried to put our customers first, and it was determined that, even though financially painful, including that functionality in the base program would be the best course of action in the long haul.

When it was determined that the nature of GreenBarnWeb's participation in this new version would be limited in October of 2008, we informed them that our contract with them for future versions would also need to be altered as it was no longer applicable to the new software, which had completely changed since version 6. This contract would reflect their reduced involvement providing support and code modifications, leaving them the ability to do what they actually did best, and continue to market the product. The new agreement would also mean a different financial structure which, they were not willing to sign up for.

GreenBarnWeb was granted the ability to trademark a name reflecting their European version of ClickCartPro 6 for the UK and EU. This grant was made under a distribution contract which covers the European version of ClickCartPro 6 exclusively. Currently, GreenBarnWeb incorrectly holds the trademark "ClickCartPro" in the UK and EU and we are taking action to correct this, as they should have never been allowed to trademark that name. Kryptronic agreed only to allow the trademark "ClickCartPro UK" to be applied for. Kryptronic refutes GreenBarnWeb's claim to our trademark in the UK and EU, but recognizes no matter how absurd, an issue with the trademark "ClickCartPro" in that region exists.

To that end, and to avoid confusion with their web site and other marketing materials, we have decided to market our latest version as EuropaCart to European customers. This will allow Kryptronic to directly market to the European community with a product designed for that market, and prevents any trademark-related issues regarding the GreenBarnWeb situation until such time as the situation is resolved.

In order to upgrade your site from ClickCartPro 5.1 or ClickCartPro 6 to EuropaCart 7, you will simply go to:

https://kryptronic.com/ecom-prodshow/EURUPG7.html

You'll need your version 5 or 6 license key and your cost will be $99.99.

If you are already running ClickCartPro 7, we issued an update yesterday (version 7.1.1) which will automatically convert your ClickCartPro 7 install into a EuropaCart 7 install when applied - if your license was purchased with a European billing address. All other users should apply the update, but the name of the software will not change when applied. To apply the update, follow the instructions below:

https://central.kryptronic.com/public/n … 2009A.html

webmaster · 10-07-2009 15:22:31

Contact the sales desk from 9AM-4PM ET every weekday. GMT is five hours ahead of ET.

webmaster · 10-07-2009 15:28:32

The following is to address a question in a previous thread.

### The following changes were made to the core component files (7.1.0 to 7.1.1):

CORE - XML data definitions updated - no code changes.

CORE_FrontEnd - XML data definitions updated - no code changes.

CORE_Joomla - XML data definitions updated; code changes to CORE_Joomla.php.

XMOD_ClickCartPro - New module will be installed if you have a ClickCartPro license.

XMOD_EuropaCart - New module will be installed if you have a EuropaCart license (all licenses purchased with billing addresses in Europe).

Management interface skin updated to COREMI711.

### The following changes were made to the ecom component files (7.1.0 to 7.1.1):

ECOM - XML data definitions updated - no code changes. ECOM/ext/tasks_shutdown/0100_savecart.php deleted.

ECOM_Cart - XML data definitions updated; code changes to ECOM_Cart.php.

ECOM_GoogleCO - XML data definitions updated; code changes to ECOM_GoogleCo.php.

ECOM_Order - XML data definitions updated; code changes to ECOM_Order.php.

ECOM_Ship - XML data definitions updated; code changes to ECOM_Ship/ext/usps.php.

XMOD_QuickBuy - XML data definitions updated; code changes to XMOD_QuickBuy.php.

XMOD_ShipEstimator - XML data definitions updated; code changes to XMOD_ShipEstimator.php.

### The following changes were made to the cms component files (7.1.0 to 7.1.1):

CMS - XML data definitions updated - no code changes.

qmstores · 10-07-2009 15:40:39

Thanks for this clarification to what was originally my question on the other thread.

This seems to be the most sensible solution and I'm really pleased to be able to stay with this product going fowards.

Many thanks.

^neo^ · 10-08-2009 04:28:19

What I was getting at in the previous thread is when upgrading to V7, as i didn't feel confident installing myself i paid for the pro install. Now 4 days later, because of a cock up with trademarks etc, I've either got to spend another $75 to get the upgrade done, or try it myself and risk screwing the whole lot up because i dont really know wtf i'm doing!

Dave · 10-08-2009 04:40:22

The move from 7.1 to 7.1.1 is minor and you may do it yourself. It's virtually impossible to mess up.

bbac · 10-08-2009 05:02:01

Dave wrote:
It's virtually impossible to mess up.

Phillip Franklin, White Star Line Vice-President wrote:
"This boat is unsinkable!"

I do think ^neo^ has a point - if a customer has recently paid money for a pro install then at least as a gesture of goodwill, Kryptonic should be offering to support users who aren't as confident as others in doing the upgrade.

If it's so easy then I'm sure it won't take the Kryptronic experts long to apply the patch.

JackOfAll · 10-08-2009 05:42:56

kev wrote:
I can appreciate both sides of this - Kryptronic want to expand into the EU market and grow their business/revenues, what company wouldn't!

You might have hit the nail on the head there. You have to wonder whether the "disagreement" between GBW and Kryptronic has anything to do with revenues, not just the "alleged" quality of GBW coding or support.

I expect this post will be deleted, like the last 2 I made. It would seem that any criticism of Kryptronic (at least on this subject) is not allowed.

Dave · 10-08-2009 05:47:32

JackOfAll wrote:
You have to wonder whether the "disagreement" between GBW and Kryptronic has anything to do with revenues

It didn't.

JackOfAll · 10-08-2009 05:56:54

Dave wrote:
JackOfAll wrote:
You have to wonder whether the "disagreement" between GBW and Kryptronic has anything to do with revenues
It didn't.

Pleased to hear it. Really, I am.

I have no affiliation with Howard or GBW, other than the fact I am/was a customer of GBW. I've just obviously had a completely different experience with the UK ClickCartPro product than other people have. The product worked fine. (It still is working fine!) We certainly never ran into "a veritable hornets nest of issues" and I received support as/when we required it.

Whilst I can appreciate that others may have had completely different experiences to ours, for the record (even if I am a lone voice) I'd just like to state my experience.

Dave · 10-08-2009 06:03:48

The hornets nest was only visible/revealed when one lifted the hood and looked inside. But it's really a moot point now.

JackOfAll · 10-08-2009 06:21:00

Dave wrote:
The hornets nest was only visible/revealed when one lifted the hood and looked inside. But it's really a moot point now.

A moot point yes, but the point is that this "veritable hornets nest of issues" was not causing me issues on a day to day basis! I'd have been the first to complain if I was dealing with bugs or unexpected behaviour on a daily basis. The fact that the "hornets nest" was "only visible/revealed" by doing a code review, (or lifting the lid and looking inside as you put it), rather than affecting my use of the software, is telling enough.

Dave · 10-08-2009 06:40:03

Constructive criticism is always welcome here and always has been.

JackOfAll · 10-08-2009 06:45:55

Dave wrote:
Constructive criticism is always welcome here and always has been.

So my deleted posts were deemed not to be constructive? (Pointing out a direct contradiction between the first paragraph of the "statement" and the second. )

^neo^ · 10-08-2009 07:14:55

Completely agree with this:

UK support means
1, A knowledge of UK/EU law as it appertains to Online services.
2, An understanding of postal systems within the UK/EU.
3, Regular updating of any Royal Mail and Parcelforce Postage Price matrix's.
4, UK/EU specific checkout issues.
5, Quick and reliable local support, with regards to americanisms, debitcards, localisiation, Counties etc.
6, A fair UK/EU Kryptronic pricing policy.
7, Continuing support for UK/EU issues and special interest items e.g. Postcode Anywhere etc.
8, Localized installation and configuration support.

After reading posts on here about CCP7 being fully UK compliant out of the box, i went for it, mainly because of the google checkout feature and i'm a sucker for buying new things when the old one ain't broken.
Unfortunately, it's not been quite that simple!

Don't know how hard it would be, but what about something in the install process where you could choose the country where you're based, and countries you ship to / deal with and only the relevant stuff is actually installed?

I spent hours over the weekend (probably because i haven't really got the hang of all this php stuff yet!) deleting countless US states and Countries i never knew existed one by one, confirming deleting after every one.
Then came to the adding UK counties, which was alot of trial and error with Excel and raw database files (quite proud of myself for working that lot out!)

Next was getting rid of all the americanisms. Not too bad on the main page texts / email texts but some of the buttons (state/province etc) has got me screwed at the moment.

Then came the tax settings. I was presented with 'item low tax rate percentage', 'item mid low tax percentage', 'item low high percentage' etc etc. Where is the button that says 'everyone pays VAT at current rate'?

Debit cards. Certainly not designed for UK use. No CVV box and system will only allow dates in 'American' format.

I appreciate the Kryptonic guys are probably snowed under with doing other stuff, but if the product is being sold for the UK market, then it should be ready to go at the click of a button.

The forum has been great and would have probably chucked the program in the bin if it wasn't here, but how about getting some of the common questions that keep coming up and do some how to guides? I've seen the videos, and they helped alot for the 'bringing the database over', but what about things like i've stated above, removing countries / states, setting tax etc? I'm sure it's simple when you know how.

Google base xmod......... is it here yet?

Dave · 10-08-2009 07:40:02

The new EuropaCart was built to give you most of the UK specific things out of the box. All of the UK counties have been in CCP since version 7 was released. We realized that there wasn't an easy way to actually have them be displayed and that was corrected in 7.1. Now, with EuropaCart, that has been taken care of for you.

^neo^ · 10-08-2009 07:54:26

Is there a 7.1.2 update planned which will sort out any of the other points?
Just wondering whether to stick with 6 til the other UK related bits have been sorted rather than pulling out what hair i have left trying to get it sorted!
Thats the other thing i was going to ask, now i have upgraded the license, when does version 6 'expire' as i think it's gonna take me a while til i'm ready to go live?

Dave · 10-08-2009 07:56:36

Version 6 won't expire. I'm not aware of any additional updates currently in the plans.

JackOfAll · 10-08-2009 08:38:56

^neo^ wrote:
Debit cards. Certainly not designed for UK use. No CVV box and system will only allow dates in 'American' format.

Constructive comment: I think it is quite obvious (from that comment alone) that the functionality in V6 for the UK market has not been replicated into V7 by Kryptronic. If functionality that used to be the default out-of-the-box is now not even available, let alone the default, "hornets nest" or not, this is step backwards.

webmaster · 10-08-2009 09:07:26

Thank you for the posts to our response.

We have been responding individually to emails and phone calls non-stop. The support behind the EuropaCart product has been overwhelming.

I would like to address a few points here:

### Next Version

Obviously, at some point, there will be a version 7.1.2 with more functionality and updates. That update is not scheduled yet. We've got a ton of upgrades to do and the custom shop is starting to bring on a lot of holiday work now. As far as ClickCartPro and EuropaCart are concerned, release 7.1.0 corrected all issues found in the software during it's first two months in production on live sites, and added a number of cool features such as Google Checkout, PayPal PayflowPro, SagePay Direct, Royal Mail and Parcelforce support. Release 7.1.1 built upon that by allowing us to specially brand and pre-localize our e-commerce engine for European users. If there are items which are missing in release 7.1.1 that are needed to fully support the European market, please let us know what they are so we can schedule a 7.1.2 release. Future plans for the software include adding support for more European processors, including a postcode lookup facility, and localizing language (we need assistance on this). If you have any requirements, please post them in the Features Request forum:

https://forum.kryptronic.com/viewforum.php?id=33

We check that forum regularly and a good majority of the requests there end up in the software. There is a UK thread in that forum which we use as a basis for our UK-specific coding.

### UK/EU Specific Support in 7.1.1

The following was posted earlier:

UK support means
1, A knowledge of UK/EU law as it appertains to Online services.
2, An understanding of postal systems within the UK/EU.
3, Regular updating of any Royal Mail and Parcelforce Postage Price matrix's.
4, UK/EU specific checkout issues.
5, Quick and reliable local support, with regards to americanisms, debitcards, localisiation, Counties etc.
6, A fair UK/EU Kryptronic pricing policy.
7, Continuing support for UK/EU issues and special interest items e.g. Postcode Anywhere etc.
8, Localized installation and configuration support.

(1) Here at Kryptronic have intimate knowledge of all tax laws governing the UK and EU regions. We have to. EuropaCart 7 is 100% compliant with all tax laws and will stay that way. The way VAT was coded into CCP6UK was one of the worst mod implementations I've ever seen. The code was a mess and multiple scenarios failed test cases outright when we audited it. For EuropaCart 7, we coded everything from the ground up - including all of the VAT logic. We couldn't even use CCP6UK as a reference point. What we have now is a tax system that extends all the way down to product option selection items - allowing items to be taxed at one of five levels and available for special tax treatment as digital or disability goods. All calculations are 100% correct. Consistency is maintained throughout the cart and checkout when displaying prices with and without VAT. It's an excellent implementation - and rock solid.

(2) Again, we have in-depth knowledge of the Royal Mail and Parcelforce systems. The software has always been able to ship from European addresses via the realtime (UPS only), custom, and product based methods. In version 7.1.0 we added support for zone based shipping and have made available (on the Kryptronic Downloads page) zone files for Royal Mail and Parcelforce. Again, the implementation of this functionality in CCPUK6 was done poorly. Again, multiple test cases failed outright. There's errors in the shipping tables available for download on the UK site for CCP6UK. Again, a big mess. Royal Mail and Parcelforce support as implemented by Kryptronic in version 7.1.0 works perfectly.

(3) Kryptronic intends on maintaining the Royal Mail and Parcelforce matrices and will update available data files when necessary. That's planned - and trivial.

(4) Concerning UK/EU specific checkout issues - we've got them covered - and don't get me started on CCP6UK in that department. In the future we will be adding support for the lesser used processors, but for now we support SagePay, Nochex, ePDQ, Paypoint.net and HSBC.

(5) Concerning local support, we can't help you there. We do not have a UK office. We're on the east coast of the US which means there's a 5 hour time difference. We get to work when you guys are getting back from lunch. For those in the UK, you can get live support from after lunch until tea and into the night and access to our support systems at all other times. We've got the infrastructure in place to support you.

(6) Concerning the pricing policy, you'll notice that we're selling the same software, our software, as ClickCartPro all over the world, and as EuropaCart in Europe. The pricing is the same. How could we justify charging more for the same product branded differently?

(7) Concerning continuing support for EU/UK issues and special interest items, read above. We've got you covered.

(8) Localized installation and configuration support was introduced with version 7.1.1. Users installing ClickCartPro get pre-localized for the US, and users installing EuropaCart get pre-localized for Europe (UK, actually). Here's what happens:

ClickCartPro Installation: Base currency set to USD; Weight units set to LBS; Dimensional units set to IN; Tax system set to STANDARD; 'United Kingdom' loaded in country table; US states and CA provinces loaded in stateprov table; ClickCartPro branding.

EuropaCart Installation: Base currency set to GBP; Weight units set to KGS; Dimensional units set to CM; Tax system set to EUVAT; 'UK' prefixed regions loaded in country table; UK counties, US states and CA provinces loaded in stateprov table; EuropaCart branding.

^neo^ · 10-08-2009 09:26:16

^neo^ posted code change here; re-posted by webmaster in the request forum.

Last edited by ^neo^ (10-08-2009 09:27:24)

webmaster · 10-08-2009 09:42:41

Thanks for the code regarding a debit card change. Please post stuff like that in the request forum here:

https://forum.kryptronic.com/viewforum.php?id=33

Trying to keep this thread limited to discussion. Speaking of discussion, JackOfAll wrote:

Constructive comment: I think it is quite obvious (from that comment alone) that the functionality in V6 for the UK market has not been replicated into V7 by Kryptronic. If functionality that used to be the default out-of-the-box is now not even available, let alone the default, "hornets nest" or not, this is step backwards.

ClickCartPro 7 is a different software product than CCP6 and CCP6UK. The previous versions were Kryptronic Hybrid X Core (KHXC) based applications. We've done away with the KHXC and the concept of CCP6 as an application for the KHXC. With version 7, we re-architected everything to bring you what you have today: the version 7 Kryptronic e-commerce engine (whether installed as ClickCartPro or EuropaCart) in all it's glory. CCP6 and CCP6UK code does not work on the new platform. The entire architecture is different. It's a brand new animal.

I take exception to the use of the term 'replicate' in your post. We were not trying to replicate anything. It's impossible to replicate CCP6 code and install it in version 7 - muchless the code implemented by GBW in the CCP6UK release. We built everything new - from the ground up - correctly. The use of the term 'replicate' is an insult to the effort involved in doing this right.

With that said, if any needed functionality is not found in version 7, simply post a nicely worded request in the features request forum and we'll review it and add it to a future update, if so warranted.

zanart · 10-08-2009 09:44:48

(4) Concerning UK/EU specific checkout issues - we've got them covered - and don't get me started on CCP6UK in that department. In the future we will be adding support for the lesser used processors, but for now we support SagePay, Nochex, ePDQ, Paypoint.net and HSBC.

You do not fully support Sagepay Direct as there is no interaction with 3D Secure.

JackOfAll · 10-08-2009 12:28:14

webmaster wrote:
I take exception to the use of the term 'replicate' in your post. We were not trying to replicate anything. It's impossible to replicate CCP6 code and install it in version 7 - muchless the code implemented by GBW in the CCP6UK release. We built everything new - from the ground up - correctly. The use of the term 'replicate' is an insult to the effort involved in doing this right.

Eh? I'm talking about replicating the functionality that was in the UK version of CCP6, that's in UK version of CCP7, the product now called EuropaCart. That wasn't intended to be insulting. I've got nothing against "doing it right", but the point I made above still stands - given the choice of losing functionality or sticking with the "hornets nest" that's "not done right" but works...... I cannot process debit card transactions without capturing the CCV. If I had "upgraded" to the new version of the software, it doesn't matter how "done right" it is, it is no use for UK debit card transactions without capturing the CCV. End of story. The CCV is not optional! It's actually critical to being able to make debit card sales in the UK. What use is a web shop where you can't take debit card payments? Rhetorical question: Answer, not much use at all! I'm sorry if you find that insulting, but it's true!

webmaster · 10-08-2009 12:36:56

As stated previously, for any items not in version 7 that you'd like to see there, please post something in the features request forum. So far we've noted:

(1) Switch/Solo gateway now requires CVV2 code (code to do this is in the features request forum).

(2) Postcode lookup desired.

(3) 3DSecure option for SagePay Direct desired.

(4) Language changes (need more info on this one)

Kryptronic Software Support Forum

#1 10-07-2009 15:03:20

CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#2 10-07-2009 15:22:31

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#3 10-07-2009 15:28:32

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#4 10-07-2009 15:40:39

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#5 10-08-2009 04:28:19

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#6 10-08-2009 04:40:22

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#7 10-08-2009 05:02:01

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

Dave wrote:

Phillip Franklin, White Star Line Vice-President wrote:

#8 10-08-2009 05:42:56

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

kev wrote:

#9 10-08-2009 05:47:32

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

JackOfAll wrote:

#10 10-08-2009 05:56:54

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

Dave wrote:

JackOfAll wrote:

#11 10-08-2009 06:03:48

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#12 10-08-2009 06:21:00

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

Dave wrote:

#13 10-08-2009 06:40:03

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#14 10-08-2009 06:45:55

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

Dave wrote:

#15 10-08-2009 07:14:55

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#16 10-08-2009 07:40:02

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#17 10-08-2009 07:54:26

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#18 10-08-2009 07:56:36

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#19 10-08-2009 08:38:56

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

^neo^ wrote:

#20 10-08-2009 09:07:26

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#21 10-08-2009 09:26:16

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#22 10-08-2009 09:42:41

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#23 10-08-2009 09:44:48

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

#24 10-08-2009 12:28:14

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

webmaster wrote:

#25 10-08-2009 12:36:56

Re: CCP7 for UK - Official Response

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