Kryptronic Software Support Forum

TerryA · 03-01-2007 10:37:56

After using this program for a while and listening to my customer’s comments, I have come to several conclusions.
1) As promised, this is a very powerful program with all kinds of possibilities! A great foundation to build your business and website on!
2) The admin section of the program is very confusing to the average user and is stopping many from upgrading because of the complexity.
Many users that have gotten used to the task oriented menu system are having problems finding the functions that they need to perform in the new interface. I remember the first time I logged into the admin interface, my first thought was, what the heck is this? What are namespaces and what do they have to do with managing a store?

I am sure there will be many different ideas on how to fix this, but here is my take on it.

1) Create a second admin interface that is task oriented rather than function oriented. This could be the default menu system but could be changed to the present interface for those that wish to use it.
2) Move all the Kryptronic Server News, Kryptronic Hybrid X Core (KHXC 6.6.0) and Store Admin information to a News and About Menu item where they are not seen every time you log in. If there is new news that needs to have the store owner’s attention, have a popup on the front page saying that there is news. In its place, have a Task Oriented menu that is either text in nature or visual in nature.
3) Clump the like functions together so that the user does not have to go searching through the whole menu system to find a function to complete a task. An example of this would be managing skins. Right now, you have to go to Displays: Skins, Menus, XHTML Includes and Messages > Manage Display Skins, and then to Store Administration > Application: Profile and Namespaces > Application Profile to set the skin that the store will use. It would be much easier for the store owner to just go to a task on the menu called Manage Store Skins and find all the functions pertaining to skins in this one place.
4) Have an Advanced Admin menu selection to place the Namespaces, database functions and other functions not used on a regular basis.

stevem · 03-01-2007 20:38:22

i second that emotion.

d9all · 03-26-2007 11:07:06

As a first-time user I would say that Terry A has summed it up perfectly. I'm still trying to find out how and where I can have a frontend administrator login and just manage the store's products. Have done numerous searches and followed instructions in wiki to add a shop manager but where can I set up their username and login? Does this require an add-on?
I have someone waiting to add products, I'm not letting him in until I can restrict his privelages as it's too easy to say delete a namespace and other more important scarey stuff.

SederGraphics · 04-20-2007 13:05:13

I also strongly agree. I thought that the update for the admin menu was supposed be out a few weeks ago. I hope that the release of this is isn't being delayed by additional features being constantly added delaying the admin interface release.

My clients are panicing when they see the existing admin panel.

Please release the admin panel update as it's own upgrade if it gets it out sooner. Many of us are developing for business owners with very little computer experience.

Love the new version of CCP though. Wasn't too sure of it the first day, ... but after that I was loving it.

Kraig

shedotcom · 05-07-2007 14:46:38

Great post Terry, I agree. I have used CCP for many years and have several clients in the CCP5 version. To upgrade them to this newer version is both good and bad, as we are having issues with perl peaking the resources on the server, so the speed and decreased resource usage is a super plus to my clients and my hosting provider, but the user interface is what is keeping me from making the switch, because of the learning curve for them.

It will take me many hours to teach them the new system with the back end menus the way that they are now. I am struggling with it, I can't even imagine what they would do if I made the switch. I would be babysitting the lot of them, and I don't have the time for that right now.

Looking forward to the newer reorganized menu for the admin. Keep us posted when it is available.

superhero2000 · 05-29-2007 14:31:03

Bump! I haven't been very active on the forum for a while now, but do check back every so often and this is one of the topics I am extremely interested in. Does anyone have any updates on this topic?

webmaster · 05-31-2007 14:19:53

The user interface was revised substantially in the update released on 05/21/2007. User comments were considered while totally revamping the management interface's layout and navigation system. User feedback after the update has been very positive. It looks like we addressed all of the usability issues people were having.

ZipSkins · 05-31-2007 15:57:14

Probably opening a can of worms here, but we are considering designing a new skin and layout for the admin interface to make it perhaps a little easier to use and a little easier on the eye.

This may never happen, were just thinking out loud so don't hold us to anything

TerryA · 05-31-2007 16:32:10

I think that you would be headed down the right track! I was somewhat disappointed when I logged into the admin after the update. I saw some differences but it was still way to tech oriented! We have had feedback from several customers that say that it is still much to hard to understand. One customer even requested to trade her 6.0 license in for a 5.1 because she still couldn't understand the admin section. One of her comments was, "What is this true/false stuff? This is too difficult for someone that does not have English as the first language." I believe that the interface is still a long way from being the simple interface that people using CCP have been used to, and needs to be made more simple for non-technical people to navigate and understand. Once this has been done, I believe that acceptance of the program will be greatly increased and sales will greatly increase. I am still telling a lot of my more untech people that they should stick with CCP5.1 until the user interface is easier to use.

TerryA · 05-31-2007 16:55:30

Also, after thinking about it a bit, I think one of the things that is causing confusion is all the stuff on the pages when you are trying to navigate to where you need to be. It could be the flyout menus that are part of the issue. I do know that having all the clutter on the first page of admin is very distracting. As I suggested earlier, having Kryptronic Server News, and all the articles on the first page is distracting and should be moved to their own page or to the bottom of the admin home page.

People are buying this program for the ecommerce capabilities so the ecommerce portion of the menu should be first and foremost, not server news. This program is not about server news! Have the first menu be what the program is about! (Have I said that enough?) Also, having the CCP Application Menu open when you log in would not be a bad thing. This is where most people using the admin will be heading so why not make it the most prevalent menu in admin.

Also, I think the menu item: Application: Profile and Namespaces needs to be changed. Most people say, what the heck is a namespace and what does that have to do with ecommerce? I know that was my initial reaction. Because it is something they don't understand, some people won't even go there because they are afraid of doing something that might mess up the program. There has got to be some other terminology that could be used for this function.
FWIW

AjnabiZ · 06-05-2007 08:59:50

I agree with TerryA

When i first installed the demo version, I was confused. Heck, i was confused between KHXC and CCP. Which is the ecommerce platform and where is the admin section.

Actually, what i can see is that CCP is more programmar oriented ecommerce solution. Its not for a Web Owner who has no experience with Programming or Designing.

Last edited by AjnabiZ (06-05-2007 09:02:59)

steveblueradio · 06-05-2007 10:02:25

maybe the best solution,is for Nick to allow for the backend to be skinable, thus allowing the developer to set it up the the shop owners liking. maybe even add Ajax function to it as well........

Dave · 06-05-2007 17:24:19

The backend has it's own skin and, in theory, should be skinable. Not quite sure it actually works though as I've tried cloning the backend skin and making some simple changes but they were never visible.

webmaster · 06-07-2007 15:57:17

Actually it works exactly like the frontend skin. You can do pretty much anything you like to it. As far as user feedback on the new backend skin, it's been very positive. I could always strip out 90% of the functionality in the program to simplify things enough for low-end users. Maybe a lite version is in order...

TerryA · 06-07-2007 16:47:38

I don't think a lite version is necessary, just set up the admin menus so they are not so developer oriented in terminology and available functions. Maybe set up a menu that is more enduser friendly using the user permissions that is selectable during setup with a way to access the rest of the admin functions easily when needed. I think that it is just a matter of making it more task oriented!

Dave · 06-07-2007 16:55:34

webmaster wrote:
Actually it works exactly like the frontend skin. You can do pretty much anything you like to it.

Well that's what I thought too but after cloning the default backend skin and making some simple changes like removing the news it wasn't being used (after changing the selected skin in admin of course). Guess I need to go back and try again.

picstart · 06-07-2007 17:18:04

How about a switchable back end

1 for full version developers

1 simple version for end users

developers set the whole cart system up for the clients, disable the developer back end and instant end user happiness

I live in hope

steveblueradio · 06-07-2007 17:26:18

could be a good idea, save nick stripping CCP down [not that I want Nick to strip down ]

Last edited by steveblueradio (06-07-2007 17:26:45)

TerryA · 06-07-2007 17:29:09

picstart wrote:
How about a switchable back end

1 for full version developers

1 simple version for end users

developers set the whole cart system up for the clients, disable the developer back end and instant end user happiness

I live in hope

That is sorta what I was trying to say!

Dave · 06-07-2007 17:33:37

That's what I was trying to accomplish with a modified skin for the backend. Interestingly enough as soon as I removed server news from the group I'd created I wasn't able to get past login. Nor, as outlined earlier, was I successful in getting a modified backend skin to "take". Nick says it should work though so it's probably something I did. Will be having another go at it that's for sure A store owner flavored backend was my goal.

picstart · 06-08-2007 02:04:25

With Dave on the case , my excitement is overwhelming, Nick and Dave certainly make a formidable team,

How about it Nick , Make the admin switchable

mark

Dave · 06-10-2007 08:19:49

webmaster wrote:
Actually it works exactly like the frontend skin. You can do pretty much anything you like to it.

I must be missing something Nick. I cloned the KHXC Management Interface Skin (naming it Store Owners Backend Skin) then went to Home > Kryptronic Hybrid X Core > Application: Profile and Namespaces > Application Profile and set the Default Display Skin* field to the newly cloned skin.

To see if the cloned skin was actually being used I made a simple change in the title and the navigation menu header in skin.php. Those simple changes were not shown.

A little bit of digging in the core files revealed this comment in KHXC_Display which, I believe, negates your comment about the backend skin being able to be changed.

Code:

// +--
// | This function includes a skin.  Skin files are included after
// | the content is generated for the final display.  
// +--

$backendskin = 'skin.KHXCMI2';

// +--
// | If our interface is BackEnd we set our skin to the default management
// | interface skin and do not allow overrides.
// +--

This comment seems to be proven by the following statement that shows up with debug enabled.

KHXC_Display::include_skin: BackEnd interface detected. Skin 'skin.OwnerBackend' replaced with 'skin.KHXCMI2'.

Gonna be tough to override the default backend skin under these circumstances

Dave · 06-10-2007 08:47:57

Simply commenting out the override assignment of the skin does in fact allow another skin to be used for the backend.

I do however see some serious potential problems with allowing the back end skin to be overridden. In the example I was starting to work on if the owners skin was set to the default a super user ended up with no way to get to a majority of the back end. For the back end it seems more logical to allow a skin to be assigned to user groups rather than set for the entire back end.

That would allow for the creation of, for example, a store owner skin and group that would allow them to manage categories and products and perhaps a stock person skin that could only get to paid for orders so they could pack and ship them (something along those lines ... you get the idea).

For now, forcing the default back end skin is probably a very good idea

AjnabiZ · 06-12-2007 05:39:35

TerryA wrote:
picstart wrote:
How about a switchable back end

1 for full version developers

1 simple version for end users

developers set the whole cart system up for the clients, disable the developer back end and instant end user happiness

I live in hope
That is sorta what I was trying to say!

I really like this idea.

Any news on this issue.

webmaster · 06-12-2007 16:07:55

I'm working on this for the next update. While the newest version of the skin is much, much better than the original - it is pretty clear the end users want something very un-technical to manage. More info on the next update can be found here:

https://forum.kryptronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=17271

Kryptronic Software Support Forum

#1 03-01-2007 10:37:56

Admin user interface

#2 03-01-2007 20:38:22

Re: Admin user interface

#3 03-26-2007 11:07:06

Re: Admin user interface

#4 04-20-2007 13:05:13

Re: Admin user interface

#5 05-07-2007 14:46:38

Re: Admin user interface

#6 05-29-2007 14:31:03

Re: Admin user interface

#7 05-31-2007 14:19:53

Re: Admin user interface

#8 05-31-2007 15:57:14

Re: Admin user interface

#9 05-31-2007 16:32:10

Re: Admin user interface

#10 05-31-2007 16:55:30

Re: Admin user interface

#11 06-05-2007 08:59:50

Re: Admin user interface

#12 06-05-2007 10:02:25

Re: Admin user interface

#13 06-05-2007 17:24:19

Re: Admin user interface

#14 06-07-2007 15:57:17

Re: Admin user interface

#15 06-07-2007 16:47:38

Re: Admin user interface

#16 06-07-2007 16:55:34

Re: Admin user interface

webmaster wrote:

#17 06-07-2007 17:18:04

Re: Admin user interface

#18 06-07-2007 17:26:18

Re: Admin user interface

#19 06-07-2007 17:29:09

Re: Admin user interface

picstart wrote:

#20 06-07-2007 17:33:37

Re: Admin user interface

#21 06-08-2007 02:04:25

Re: Admin user interface

#22 06-10-2007 08:19:49

Re: Admin user interface

webmaster wrote:

Code:

#23 06-10-2007 08:47:57

Re: Admin user interface

#24 06-12-2007 05:39:35

Re: Admin user interface

TerryA wrote:

picstart wrote:

#25 06-12-2007 16:07:55

Re: Admin user interface

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